Curse

Tainek · Apr 21, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Im aware that for obvious reasons when factions is released there will be a huge unbalance and the PVP scene will be a mess for a good few weeks

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Second_Wind

Prehaps ive got the skill wrong, but this skill seems absolutly obscene

"You gain 1 Energy for each point of Energy lost due to Exhaustion. This spell causes Exhaustion."

If ive got this right, if 70 of your energy bar is suffering exaustion, then you will be gaining 70 energy every 6 seconds, thats about 23 pips of regen

the skill isnt even linked to any attributes, so any proffession (lets say a monk) they spam the skill while waiting for the battle to commence, voila, full exaustion (the spell causes it) and crazy energy regen

prehaps im just reading the skill wrong, but this seems crazy for them to let through

wheel · Apr 21, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

It would have to be run as an Elementalist for full effect so that you would have a larger buffer for the exhaustion, and thus the energy gain.

Tainek · Apr 21, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

It would have to be run as an Elementalist for full effect so that you would have a larger buffer for the exhaustion, and thus the energy gain.

i challange you to use 50 energy in 6 seconds....

wheel · Apr 21, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

i challange you to use 50 energy in 6 seconds....

I challenge you to have a non elementalist with 100 max Energy.

MirageCloud · Apr 21, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

dont forget, this skill doesnt remove the exhaustion, it makes it worse.

quickmonty · Apr 21, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Use it a few times and it won't matter 'cause exhaustion is going to knock your energy pool way down.

MirageCloud beat me to it

BDStyle · Apr 21, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

all this skill does is give you extra energy for what you ahve lost due to exhaustion.. it doesn't remove it so a 100 energy pool with 50 exhaustion will still only be 50 exhaustion so Constant spike or spamming will not be possible still. Also as you use this skill you reduce your energy pool even further so the more you use it the more you become useless

Fred Kiwi · Apr 21, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

to me, I can't decide whether it would be useful or not. I'd say it'll balance

Tainek · Apr 22, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDStyle

all this skill does is give you extra energy for what you ahve lost due to exhaustion.. it doesn't remove it so a 100 energy pool with 50 exhaustion will still only be 50 exhaustion so Constant spike or spamming will not be possible still. Also as you use this skill you reduce your energy pool even further so the more you use it the more you become useless

but is this energy that you havent gained as regen? or energy for the energy bar greyed out?

if this skill just restores you to 4 pips of regen fair enough, its fine

if it gives energy for every bit of energy covered by exaustion, then theres a problem

(and where did 100 energy come into it?)

oljomo · Apr 22, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

I challenge you to have a non elementalist with 100 max Energy.

Hi

MAybe 100 is a bit extreme, but 70 is easily doable (30 base + 12 +15 +15 + tats + any other + energy mods on focyuus/wand.

Personally i think it is possible that it will give some crazy energy, but at the expens of only being able to run half a bar of energy. Also note that although the actual recharge is 6 seconds the effective recharge is 30 when you factor in addition l recharge, total energy is going to be about 40 every 30 seconds, as well as 2 pips on average (with the +15 - 1 focus and wand for 0 attributes in the line. This gives a total energy regen in a minute of 120

Compare this to mantra of recall (needs attributes then gets ~ 20 energy per 20 secs, but doest lose any energy regen pips). This gives a grand total energy regen over a minute of roughly 140.

Note hower that it is possible with good weapon switching to get more energy out of the second wind method, and also the fact that second wind grants energy when required as oppsosed to hoping it comes at the right moment, and you could see wa whole lot of Mo/Es out there :O

However the major downfall against this is the new spirit equinox, which doubles exhaustion, which will make second wind unrunable.

oljomo

Lord Iowerth · Apr 22, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

ok, diagram time! (* represents current energy, x is exhausted area)

Energy bar
[0] ------------------------*[50] before any spells are cast

[0] -------------------*xxxxx[50] energy cost of spell, exhaustion

[0] -------------*xxxxxxxxxxx[50] after another exhaustion spell

Note, this is simple exhaustion ... if you've exhausted half your energy pool (as in example 3) then it doesn't matter how much energy you gain back when casting, you will still only reach a MAX of 25, in this example. Basically this spell keeps the * (your current energy) pretty much at the top of your available pool. Without said spell, your energy cost will usually be more than your exhaustion, represented here:

[0] ---------*-----xxxxxxxxxx[50]
the area right here^ is the area between current and max energy (what you can gain back with regen, etc)

Hope this helps, and excuse my horrible diagrams!

(R)Phoenix · Apr 22, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Dont forget too guys, it IS an elite, that alone will cripple alot of builds for a possibly good possibly bad skill... I personally (as a monk) would rather keep my mesmer skills for energy management (until i see what other come with factions.. hehe)

floppinghog · Apr 22, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

put it this way, you have max of 70 energy, spell does NOTHING until your exhausted some of it.

cast some stuff to use up 20 energy (your now 50/70)

now cast meteor shower (causes exhaustion) -25 your now 25/60 (10 exhausted)

now take that elite - use it. = you gain 10 energy and become exhausted more. your now 35/50 (20 exhausted) next cast of the elite would give 20 energy but lowering your maximum once again to 40.

its an interesting spell to mess with, its just what it is, a second wind. your out of energy (cept for its cost) and you have been exhausted by X amount from spells. cast- quick energy burst to keep casting more. I dont see how another class can dare take advantage of this spell. too big of a energy pool is required.

maybe that little thing cleared up the general idea of its use? its not bad, though its not very useful after the first few uses either. its just for a bit of energy in a pinch

TheMosesPHD · Apr 22, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

i challange you to use 50 energy in 6 seconds....

Rodgort's Invocation
Glyph of Sacrifice
Meteor Shower

Iraqalypse Now · Apr 22, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

First, I believe that you get exhausted first, then gain energy from second wind. I might be wrong though.

Second, the other problem with second wind is that it gets hurt by death penalty. Badly. Very badly. The answer to an enemy team trying to min/max with Second Wind is that if you apply DP to anyone using second wind, they become less effective due to having a smaller energy pool - second wind gives energy based on the size of your energy pool.

dawnrain · May 11, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Has anyone explored using this skill and the "exhaustion can't go negative," mechanic? If that mechanic has changed, kindly disregard the rest of this post.

My understanding is that Exhaustion doesn't "go negative." So you don't have to worry about too much exhaustion, just focus swap accordingly (as demonstrated by the Gale warriors when Gale was 5e).

Consider a monk with 2 weapon sets: -5e sword/shield and +15e wand/+27e offhand. So this monk goes from 25e to 72e in one switch and vice versa. Stay on your 72e set and build up at least 25e exhaustion and when you need energy swap to your 25e set and swap back to your 72e set and cast second wind. Your exhaustion should be 25e+10e when you cast second wind for 35e exhaustion. That's +35e (net +30e) as often as every 7 seconds or +5e per second, which is 15pips. Is this is almost as good as the “old/broken” Ether Renewal.

I don’t have the skill so I don’t know if the above theory will hold up to actual gameplay. But if it does, I’d expect an eventual fix to either the exhaustion mechanic or second wind.

Draygo Korvan · May 11, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

Has anyone explored using this skill and the "exhaustion can't go negative," mechanic? If that mechanic has changed, kindly disregard the rest of this post.

Mechanic changed, ignoring rest of post.

Energy Boon is a far better energy management elite than Second wind if you need energy asap. EP is still the preferred energy management for elementalists however due to its energy gain being lenghtened by 20% enchant mods. Though EP can be stripped, Energy boon cannot be striped and is energy on demand.